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	<title>Comments on: Kant, Marx, and a Barcelona bakery</title>
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		<title>By: Antieuro</title>
		<link>http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/kant-marx-and-a-barcelona-bakery/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Antieuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 06:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclismas.com/?p=5111#comment-262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@CulturaCiclista

That you simply ask the question whether there is any difference between American culture and American pop-culture is evidence for what I was talking about.  Europeans, and others around the world, I imagine, can and do confuse the two. 

 

I&#039;m unpolite and arrogant? Really? A youngster who&#039;s spent little time in the US tells me that Americans think about other people as means to an end and not as ends in themselves. Maybe you don&#039;t see it, but this piece is a moral condemnation of Americans. It&#039;s made by a youngster who&#039;s spent little time in the US, knows very little about actual Americans, and who, at the same time, is or will benefit from a prestigious US institution, the University of California.  So, how does it go?  He can condemn the moral character of Americans, based on bad reasoning and little experience, but if anyone tries to reply, they are &quot;unpolite and arrogant&quot;.  Wow.  That it makes sense to you to talk like that just indicates to me you&#039;ve got some really virulent anti-American biases.  And, I suspect, you&#039;ve gotten them watching TV.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@CulturaCiclista</p>
<p>That you simply ask the question whether there is any difference between American culture and American pop-culture is evidence for what I was talking about.  Europeans, and others around the world, I imagine, can and do confuse the two. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m unpolite and arrogant? Really? A youngster who&#8217;s spent little time in the US tells me that Americans think about other people as means to an end and not as ends in themselves. Maybe you don&#8217;t see it, but this piece is a moral condemnation of Americans. It&#8217;s made by a youngster who&#8217;s spent little time in the US, knows very little about actual Americans, and who, at the same time, is or will benefit from a prestigious US institution, the University of California.  So, how does it go?  He can condemn the moral character of Americans, based on bad reasoning and little experience, but if anyone tries to reply, they are &#8220;unpolite and arrogant&#8221;.  Wow.  That it makes sense to you to talk like that just indicates to me you&#8217;ve got some really virulent anti-American biases.  And, I suspect, you&#8217;ve gotten them watching TV.</p>
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		<title>By: CulturaCiclista</title>
		<link>http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/kant-marx-and-a-barcelona-bakery/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CulturaCiclista]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 18:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclismas.com/?p=5111#comment-261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Antieuro

Is there any real difference between american culture and american  pop-culture? Is there such thing as &quot;american culture&quot;? As a Spain taxpayer I find very unpolite and arrogant to reproach someone for benefitting from our (shrinking) welfare system, even more if the reproached will be earning his bread and butter meanwhile and therefore becoming a taxpayer himself.

 

Oh, I have just realized that maybe you do not know the meaning of the expression &quot;welfare system&quot;...

 

And no, I am not the owner of the Barcelona&#039;s bakery.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Antieuro</p>
<p>Is there any real difference between american culture and american  pop-culture? Is there such thing as &#8220;american culture&#8221;? As a Spain taxpayer I find very unpolite and arrogant to reproach someone for benefitting from our (shrinking) welfare system, even more if the reproached will be earning his bread and butter meanwhile and therefore becoming a taxpayer himself.</p>
<p>Oh, I have just realized that maybe you do not know the meaning of the expression &#8220;welfare system&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>And no, I am not the owner of the Barcelona&#8217;s bakery.</p>
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		<title>By: Antieuro</title>
		<link>http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/kant-marx-and-a-barcelona-bakery/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Antieuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 06:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclismas.com/?p=5111#comment-260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice.  Self-indulgent, gratuitous America-bashing from a Brit who is a PhD candidate at UC San Diego.  Well, I for one am getting annoyed with smug Europeans.  George Bush ain&#039;t in office no more.

 

1. Yes, in Southern Europe you have authentic conversations in charming bakeries, but in the US the alternative is watching Jessica Simpson.  A compelling point.  I&#039;m nervous about continuing.

 

2.  Your anecdote is so biased it&#039;s surprising you even used it.  The baker, who knows you are a pro cyclist was sympathetic with your plight.  Oh, but that would never happen in the US.  Except it happens all the time.

 

3. Your statement of Kant&#039;s (second formulation) of the Categorical Imperative is incorrect.  The imperative does not rule out treating other people as a means to our own ends.  We do it all the time, must do it all the time, and it is perfectly legitimate on Kant&#039;s view.  The imperative requires treating every person as an end, and never SOLELY as a means.  Further, your baker example is not even a clear case of one person treating another as an end in himself in the way Kant thought of it. 

 

4. There&#039;s likely a serious equivocation in your use of &quot;culture&quot; in the following: 

 

&quot;This isn’t to say that there aren’t wonderful, gernerous, friendly  people in the U.S. – there are. But the culture doesn’t promote this way  of thinking and I think that is a real crisis.&quot; 

 

American culture doesn&#039;t promote treating other people as ends?  I don&#039;t know what culture you&#039;re talking about. I was taught not to lie, to tell the truth, to never use other people to their own detriment, etc.  But, perhaps, you&#039;re talking about American pop-culture instead?  It seems you are when you compare talking with a baker in Barcelona to suffering Jessica Simpson.  You&#039;re making the mistake a lot of Europeans make. You&#039;re confusing the way the US, Americans, and American culture are represented in American pop-culture with the actual thing.  Noone in the US with a half a brain believes that the crap in movies and on TV accurately represents the US, American culture, or Americans.  And, this leads to my last point.

 

5. Dude, you&#039;re gazing at shadows on the wall in Plato&#039;s cave.  You&#039;re making judgments about reality on the basis of manipulated images and representations, rather than by carefully observing, studying, and thinking about the real thing.

 

As a California taxpayer who will be partially funding your graduate education when you gain residency in CA, I expect better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice.  Self-indulgent, gratuitous America-bashing from a Brit who is a PhD candidate at UC San Diego.  Well, I for one am getting annoyed with smug Europeans.  George Bush ain&#8217;t in office no more.</p>
<p>1. Yes, in Southern Europe you have authentic conversations in charming bakeries, but in the US the alternative is watching Jessica Simpson.  A compelling point.  I&#8217;m nervous about continuing.</p>
<p>2.  Your anecdote is so biased it&#8217;s surprising you even used it.  The baker, who knows you are a pro cyclist was sympathetic with your plight.  Oh, but that would never happen in the US.  Except it happens all the time.</p>
<p>3. Your statement of Kant&#8217;s (second formulation) of the Categorical Imperative is incorrect.  The imperative does not rule out treating other people as a means to our own ends.  We do it all the time, must do it all the time, and it is perfectly legitimate on Kant&#8217;s view.  The imperative requires treating every person as an end, and never SOLELY as a means.  Further, your baker example is not even a clear case of one person treating another as an end in himself in the way Kant thought of it. </p>
<p>4. There&#8217;s likely a serious equivocation in your use of &#8220;culture&#8221; in the following: </p>
<p>&#8220;This isn’t to say that there aren’t wonderful, gernerous, friendly  people in the U.S. – there are. But the culture doesn’t promote this way  of thinking and I think that is a real crisis.&#8221; </p>
<p>American culture doesn&#8217;t promote treating other people as ends?  I don&#8217;t know what culture you&#8217;re talking about. I was taught not to lie, to tell the truth, to never use other people to their own detriment, etc.  But, perhaps, you&#8217;re talking about American pop-culture instead?  It seems you are when you compare talking with a baker in Barcelona to suffering Jessica Simpson.  You&#8217;re making the mistake a lot of Europeans make. You&#8217;re confusing the way the US, Americans, and American culture are represented in American pop-culture with the actual thing.  Noone in the US with a half a brain believes that the crap in movies and on TV accurately represents the US, American culture, or Americans.  And, this leads to my last point.</p>
<p>5. Dude, you&#8217;re gazing at shadows on the wall in Plato&#8217;s cave.  You&#8217;re making judgments about reality on the basis of manipulated images and representations, rather than by carefully observing, studying, and thinking about the real thing.</p>
<p>As a California taxpayer who will be partially funding your graduate education when you gain residency in CA, I expect better.</p>
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